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Tuesday, August 3, 2021

Do All Debuts always make it back?(Roster Info Dump)

So there's some discussion that goes on about 'Who gets cut and who makes it' in KOF XIV. Some think EVERYONE will be back because assets. Some think no, because, well, it does happen newcomers get cut. 


So, as usual, I decide to use the 'scientific method', going by purely historical data. What I'm doing here is listing exactly when characters debuted, were cut, and then put back in, and as you'll see...while it's not like, All Day Every Day, it's certainly not uncommon at all.  

(Also, reusing assets was probably more valuable back then that it is with UE4, which is easier to generally use once you get used to it, just to put that out there re: the assets.) 


Now how I'll be doing this:


-I'll be counting both True Newcomers(brand new characters), and KOF Newcomers(Established SNK characters who debuted in a KOF.) You'll know whose who I think. 

-I'm again focusing on characters who sat out immediately after debuting. (I'll mention when they came back and such.)

-Not counting DMs. In those days, DMs were literally "(Almost) Everyone is Here!" so they'd cram everyone, including dead bosses, back in. So '98(and its iterations), 2k2(and its iterations), and such. (Kusanagi gets mentioned.) 

-I don't count striker appearances. 

-I will mention DLC or console based characters, who tend to not be canon, but I'll make sure I mention this at the side, and I'll leave it up to the individual to count them. 

-I won't count bosses with two exceptions(one sub boss, one boss) as you'll see below(for reasons explained.) 

-I am not counting Maximum Impact in this. MI has only one canon link(Xiao Lon), and so I'll keep that separate. 

-I'm not sure I'll bother counting the Kyo clones, but you can if you want I guess? It will make the newcomer drop from '99 to '00 slightly worse if you count them. 


Starting off, going in chronological order of games: 


The scrappy 'heroes', the American Sports Team, is probably the ur-example of this. Appearing in '94. Never seen again in canon.

Billy Kane and Eiji Kisaragi made their KOF debut in '95. Billy did not return in '97(and then not until 03, he's a back and forth kinda guy, he did appear in XIV.), and Eiji did not return canonically until XI, where he disappeared again.

Mature and Vice appeared in '96 and were promptly reduced to their base components. They didn't return in actual playable canon until XIII. 

'96s Boss Team popped up, Big and Krauser never returned and Geese not again in the story until XIV. (He was console only in XI.)

Kasumi Todoh appeared in '96 and sat out '97, not returning again in the canon until NESTS saga.

Chris, Shermie, and Yashiro debuted in '97 and were killed off; they weren't seen again in canon until the yet-unreleased KOF XV. 

Ryuji Yamazaki made his KOF debut in '97, but disappeared after that until '03, and then wasn't seen again in the canon(he was DLC in XIV.

Xiangfei made her KOF debut in '99, sat out '00, returned in '01 and disappeared. If you want to count them, the Kyo clones, 1 and 2, never made it into a canon game again. 

KOF 2000 was one of the only times where all non boss debuts made it into the next game. 

May Lee Jinju, K9999(who was erased), and Foxy all debuted playable in '01 and did not return. 

Angel debuted in '01, and did not return to canon until XIV.

KOF 2003 was *technically* another time where characters who debuted made it into XI, with the exception of Mukai who was a boss(see below this in regards to Adelheid, however.) This was the only time this has happened since KOF 2000. (Kusanagi is a gray spot, since he debuted in a DM, and he was technically an image made from a mirror. Maki did not technically debut in 2003, as she was the alternate boss in '96 if you made Chizuru playable. In any case, she's been dead.) You can count Kusanagi if you want; I personally do not, but either way. 

KOF XI had Adelheid's playable debut. He was a little different in that despite being the tournament boss of 2003, he was considered the saga's co-protagonist(Ash Saga got pretty ambitious.) He unfortunately wasn't playable in XIII despite being said co-protagonist. Momoko also had her XI debut and didn't make it into XIII. Gai Tendo, Silber, Jyazu and Sho Hayate debuted and had their sole appearance here, but they did not have story roles in XI, so they technically weren't in KOF canon. Duck King had his one appearance in XI(in story.) Oswald debuted in XI, sat out XIII, and did not return until XIV, though was DLC only and not part of the canon story. B. Jenet debuted in XI, not to return again yet. Elisabeth was the only debut to make it. 

(The PS2 exclusive characters like Hotaru and Tung were not canon at all. But if you'd like to count them in terms of the immense loss XI to XIII had feel free.) 

Saiki had his one appearance in KOF XIII. Raiden had his first canon debut in XIII with Hwa Jai(Raiden was in XII, the 'dream match'-which XII hardly was-came before, Ash Saga got kinda messed up there at the end), and neither of them made it back in. (Mr. Karate appeared in XIII, but given that's Takuma I'm not going to nitpick here and count him.) 


So what do I do with all of this rambly info?


Basically, this info is here to show you that more often than not, characters who debut in a game can sit out the next game. This has happened far more often than not, as you see above. Mostly this was assembled because I see a lot of 'Well, XIV debuts have to make it back because don't they always?" Well, no, kinda not. If anything, everyone making it back is sort of the exception to the rule, and previous KOFs had far fewer debuts as well. 

Again, it is an exception, rather than the rule, that debuts make it back immediately following their debut, and this goes for pure newcomers, too. NESTS saga was fairly kind to its brand new characters particularly in '99 and '00(01, not so much.) Likewise, Ash Saga was kind from '03 to XI, but terrible later on for it. Orochi saga likewise wasn't kind to its brand-newcomers, killing most of them(to resurrect later.) I do want to point out again that most characters do eventually make it back in; just not in the game directly following their debuts. 


"Reused Assets?"

Yes, I do think this will come into play-hence why I do think *most* of XIV appearances will be in. 

Do I think they all will? Nah, and again, this has a lot of historical data backing it up, up to some games-like 2001 and XI-being the sole appearances of more than a few characters, even, and all but a couple having people sit. (As for how many, I think about 8-9 of the 18 newcomers will sit, and I feel like about 5-6 of the 'semi-usuals' will sit as well. But I do think we'll get the DLC back as playable. So take the 58 XIV and subtract 14. Replace those 14 with returns, which we have four of already, to *match* XIV's roster count, and they could even go higher. 

Also remember: they have a lot of experience with UE4. I think making a double handful of new models is very viable and feasible, and they're in nowhere near the same situation as they were in XIII with having to reuse assets to even *get* a roster. 

I know people may disagree with this(it's why I tried to give as much hard evidence as possible to show I'm not just making crap up when it comes to 'yes, there really are only a couple KOFs where all the debuts carried over'), and that's fair, but I just wanted to give a little perspective why some of us aren't as sold on 'ALL the XIV characters(save pachislots and Verse) WILL DEFINITELY be in' as we might be. 

Anyway, just an info dump. Hope you enjoy!

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